Founders Of The North

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Forum Home > General Discussion > FOTN: Legacy Reborn

Runegun
Member
Posts: 3

fRea4ky at March 1, 2014 at 10:35 AM

Well i have everything expect the triggers now...The map is playable now but it's missing alot of things like mining,pearling,merchanting.There isn't a limit for buildings/units(you can have unlimited food),i managed to make the hunting system as it was(i added bears,no more pack wolves or bear cubs like shade intended,beacuse of this i will make bears/wolves alot stronger)i started working on fishing,i will make it more profitable and regarding merchantry it will be a whole new system,for now atleast.

dude, i think that should be a limit for the units, because the game can lag a lot... the bear is a nice idea. keep doing the nice job :) (sorry for the bad english)

March 27, 2014 at 11:09 AM Flag Quote & Reply

FABLE
Member
Posts: 3

This looks like a good shot, but still it will be hard work.

April 24, 2014 at 6:51 AM Flag Quote & Reply

J' InFiniTY
Moderator
Posts: 767

i would also like to add that, whilst there had been some talk of continuing/stand-alone development for a FOTN game, i have (against Kalkara's Advice, soz brother) also gone ahead and started looking into the possibility of making a FOTN-style map on SC2 (which is where i spent half of my gaming hours anyways).


the map i am currently making for SC2 is not a direct-copy version of FOTN; instead, in order to fit in with SC2's setup, unit selection, design, etc, i have pitted the map in development towards a more sci-fi oriented design. i still intend to keep the sandbox feel to it (and i will talk about the contents below), but due to a few things (such as my exams) i am developing really slowly. also, SC2 editor is pretty bad compared to wc3 for developing a game like FOTN. really, this is just because sc2 editor makes it a much bigger pain in the ass to make custom units than wc3, since you actually need to pretty much make everything for a custom unit (Unit, Weapon, Abilities, Actors, Sound, etc). triggering is slightly easier, but will still need to take time to learn.


==========================


anyways, the content i already have in the game:


Primary Factions:


- a  neutral (joinable) faction named "military". name says all.

- a  neutral (joinable) faction named "rebels". they pretty much play the role of pagans. lol.


- a third neutral faction named "town". this is really just the faction for north town and south town (because Town is not part of military or rebels in this instance, but i may change this to post military as security as an option, we'll see).


a number of playstyles are available:


- you can play as a businessman (by default), who makes money (currently minerals) through multiple methods (currently there is Raw Material Mining, but i am intending on adding hunting, farming, import-export, all as trees with branching items). they also have access to basic Mercenary units as defense/offense, but are not specialised in this. if need be, this can be covered by a "merc player".


i intend on making Businessman the main playstyle,  which follows FOTN the most; really, this is just another term for merchant. everything produced by a businessman will be in the form of an item, which can either be sold for minimal Mineral worth (and different worths at different sell-locations), or be processed/upgraded for a better output. however, as balancing with the newer playstyles, i intend on making businessman fundamentally the weakest combat class. if you read on, you'll understand.


- you can play as a mercenary, who can basically be bossed around by whoever he wants (kinda like Knights & Kings) for the purposes of making money. Merc players are designed for those who favor bandit-play in FOTN, and can be a general nuisance and go around wrecking players, especially business players, and loot their cargos/units for resources. ALL UNITS IN THIS NEW GAME HAVE LOOT RESOURCES (RESOURCES GAINED UPON DEATH). the resource output scales on what kind of unit and how high up the tech tree it is. for example, killing Military Patrol Infantry nets 22 minerals atm (really just for dev testing) whilst killing a Military Regular Rifleman (the basic unit) nets around 50-60 (also for dev testing).


that said, mercs can always be a good merc. they can strike deals with businessmen or even military/rebel factions, and use their mercs to boost power. they should probably be looking for a worthwhile transaction of minerals/gas though, otherwise they might as well backstab them (i know i would).


Mercenaries will have access to relatively stronger units at each tier level. the idea is that merc units will cost more minerals, and some units will require gas (which i intend to be harder to obtain, but still abudant). this way, the total worth of a mercenary is justified for a mercenary player, however slightly less encouraged for business or other factions. merc units will also have a higher supply count, so merc players will have the feeling of "being stronger in less numbers". they will also have a different style of tech tree, where their founder will be able to purchase new merc-types based on upgrades, rather than upgrading in tiers. (WIP)


Mercenary Founders will gain access to weapons/armor of a higher grade than businessmen and rebels too. they will have a proper firearm too, so they can effectively be useful as a leader.


Next:

- You can play as part of the military, and your primary role is to destroy the rebel faction, as well as any... Annoyances... to the military faction. military will have the primary role of being similar to the church; their ideal goal is to enforce their control on the map and defeat rebel players, as well as possible mercs and businessmen not in alignment with military.


Military will have access to most of the good combat hardware. they will be the only faction to have access to all types of combat gear (ie from Tanks to Aircraft). their units set the standards for each tier level; Mercs are stronger than Military on a stat-basis, whereas Rebels are weaker. however, Military has a bigger selection of units, more weapons and variety, and most importantly, a stronger emphasis on combined arms.


Military Founders will have access to good gear and units for the whole game. they gain access to stronger units through a proper tier system, based on their level (as level is gained through combat). the levels for each tier i am currently thinking about making it rise in an exponential curve (simply for balancing). the levels will act as paygrades for military founders, and they will find most of their cash from killing units (or extortion of other players, be aware this is also possible lol. i intend on making each faction as roleplay-capable as possible)


- You can play as a member of the Rebels. this is almost a merge between merc, Military, and business. Rebels are not a strong head-on force. their units are slightly weaker than military, but do not cost as much. there's not much to say about this faction, other than the fact that it has a good blend of units and business capability. i intend on giving rebels minor business capabilities ie creating/selling goods such as raw minerals. they can then sell it to the markets, which makes the markets a viable control point for both military and rebels.


Rebel heroes will be more focussed on (or atleast, that's the game plan). i intend on making Rebel heroes slightly stronger than military and merc, not through damage but through hp/armor. i want Rebel players to gain the feeling that their hero is pivotal in a team, much like Braveheart (LOL). i don't know, i may change that. it doesn't feel very encouraging, so i'd love feedback on that.


they will also have access to a black market upgrade panel, which can unlock better units, weapons, and vehicles than military. Rebels will probably have a faster tech too, because it is not level dependent, but rather money dependent. more pressure on military :D


- most importantly, you can play as a freelancer. this basically just means not choosing a side, and not building a base. i haven't really worked on this yet (because of focus on faction content) but i intend on making a proper setup for freelancer.


freelancers will be entirely devoted to their hero. they will have access to some business (ie hunting, questing, etc) but will not have access to as many things as any other faction. they will be given a very small supply cap (i'm currently thinking around 11, since the basic mercenary is 2 supply, and a founder is 3, so a freelancer can have 4 mercs on top of his founder). they will probably have the strongest heroes, but not by much (i'll explain why later). they will also have the best opportunities in exploring, as they aren't bogged down by the idea of setting up a base.


- Finally, there are black Ops Operators. this is a Dev Only feature atm, it just consists of units that are much stronger and/or units currently in dev but not particularly sure which faction they belong to. most of these black-ops units will most likely end up as PvE Mobs, or "Members Only content" (cause on SC2, you can actually do this shit via Bank Files).


they will most likely be kept in and accessible by development after a proper release, mainly so people in a pub can see them and comment on them prior to a proper release. obviously, they're gonna be OP the first time you see them, which is why peeps gotta be vocal about nerfs/buffs. lol.


===========


the main reason as to why i set out the factions like such is because of the feedback from FOTN. i remember many players from around v1.18-1.23 were complaining about fighting players who then left because they wanted to have an all-peaceful game. i hope that with the setup of factions, not only will it solidify the idea that FOTN will not always be peaceful, but also that there are more engaging/RP'ing ways to deal with them. by laying out these factions like such, each faction has a method to deal with another (as long as no one had pre-planned a gang-up).


it pretty much goes like this:

Business (being most peaceful players) can be easily harassed by any combat player.

- this can be countered if they make themselves a contract with another combat player (this can enforce a beneficial pact between two players, in a win-win situation). furthermore, this can encourage more player interaction. it's a 10-player (upped from 8 in the original) game for a reason.

Combat (being the guys with bigger guns) do not have a steady income like Business has.

- to compensate, they should be looking for affordable work (or extortion) of business, so they can continue building up their forces/upgrades.

Hence, Business will need their Security, and the Cycle continues.


as for heroes, currently i am intentionally making the founders initially weaker on purpose. the idea behind this is to make a stronger emphasis on mercenaries. i find that in FOTN and other games, not many people were fully taking advantage of mercenary camps mainly because they held no real value. by making founders weaker, not only do mercs now gain a purpose, they can also be very useful investment especially against early-game harassment. it also makes more logical sense lore-wise; why should a businessman outfight a gun-for-hire? shouldn't it be the other way around? now it is! except if that businessman bought himself a gun and is 20 levels in front, that'd just be awkward.


i have included a male AND female founder in the game. i didn't actually change the model for any of the sex-changes except civilian. this is because if they are wearing a powersuit, i'm sure no one would notice the face under a shiny tinted helmet.


also, i am still trying to figure out how to create proper savefiles (bankfiles) for sc2. once i figure this out, players will be able to permanently save their Founders, so they can carry over to the next game without resetting. the main reason behind doing this is for the following reasons:


- so if someone RQ's, they will be at a disadvantage for not actually gaining anything from the session

- so players do not have to rebuild everything in their base from scratch (more details below)

- So a player's faction will be remembered

- So a player can start from his experience level. i don't expect this will impact game balancing; i am still working on it, but currently there is no way experience can unbalance the game. mercs will have a recruit cooldown to avoid early-game rush kills.

- It's a rising trend on SC2 where if no bankfiles/achievements are around, players will cease to play the game. so this is also partially to attract part of the sc2 community as well, and to include higher end content.

- The most important one (apparently). Members Only Content.


now, a few concepts i wish to work on (input required):


- i want to let players save basic structures and resources through items in their Founders' Inventory. this could give access to a quickstart for a returning player. this is mainly a concept because i intend on making the tech trees large enough to require more than one game session. due to SC's nature of easy updating, once i get a good break, i can upload a lot. in the meantime, i am really restricted with content flow.


- i want to make permanent/semi-permanent player-created factions, mainly for clans. with the introduction of proper player-created factions, a player can choose what their factions' role is, whether it is another version of the default factions, or maybe something else altogether (even a grief faction, i don't know).


- i want to get away from the idea of walls. walls are okay with medieval age towns/cities, but with the SC2 Scene, where just about everything except Zerg has ranged attacks, walls are becoming obselete. i may put walls in just for the sake of them, but i would like to hear some input on this.


- Bosses/Global Events (calamities). i'm still drawing up concepts of these, but i am restricted in a few areas (mainly unit models), so i'm not 100% sure about this yet. currently, i do have a few ideas on the plate:

- Zombie Outbreak (cause every game has this shit now)

- Assassin (this is actually based on the Dev-units i'm using, i'm thinking about converting them into fully fledged boss units designed to track down and kill Founders as a calamity. they're pretty OP. also, Note: they're not using Nova Models (OMG IKR, EVERY ASSASSIN HAS TO BE NOVA). to be frank, it's not kerrigan either. don't get your hopes up. lol.)

- Military Incursion (this is pretty much a global assault of the military, but i'm not 100% sure about this since it would be a very unfair boost to the military faction).

- Zerg Invasion (not sure about this either, i feel this is against the game's playstyle. if anything, it would be useful in justifying walls though. lol).


also, another thing i am struggling with is a specific set of lore to stick with. this is mainly because although i am trying to stick with Spice&wolf Style lore(albeit modernized), i feel like it needs to get itself on a tangent.


=====================


Notes about progress/bugs thus far:


- A very limited unit selection (2-3 units per faction, i will have atleast 4-5 units + 2-3 Faction-specific things up and ready to go before first alpha version is released)


- Terrain is (i'd say) 80-90% complete. a lot of foliage, a lot of grass, a lot of snow. there are only a total of 3 cliff levels (including ground), but that shouldn't get in the way. still trying to free up some space for more basing locations, but for the most part it'll be okay.


- Basic Map Triggering. Military and Rebels already clash properly. Towns send townsfolk around properly. spawning/despawning works properly (so no lag-deaths from travellers like wc3). 


- basic Items and Shops, Faction-based Trainers. they're already available, just a bit empty on content. still working on it.


- very few Neutral-Hostile Mobs. i'll be adding more as i get further with content. at the moment they're just mercs painted in white.


- Pathing Bugs (mainly just Glitches with Bridges. note Rhyme. lol)


- Slight Balancing Issues (the income for business is unbelievably high; buildings are currently unkillable by the available units [Intended], but no siege units have been added)


- Animation bugs (most models in SC2 have a particular way of working, and i haven't spent enough time on SC2 editor to fully understand it. as a result, units (SPOILER ALERT) such as the current Mercenary Juggernaut (marauder model) does not move his arms when firing. it's very minimal stuff like this that i need to fix)


- Buildings don't Rotate. well i know right. holy fuck.


- Bank Files. They are confusing as fuck atm. usually they should already be working, but this is driving me insane.


=====================


anyways, i am thinking about making a separate Topic for this, cause i am pretty dead set on this and i would love to see some discussion on it too. lemme know about that.


otherwise, thank you for reading this gigantic post, and if you want to get in touch with me about the above mentioned project for sc2, message me directly on this forum board (or message me on xfire (link through Signature) or Steam (steamid should be J'InFi if not try JInFi93)). i hope you guys are looking forward to this, i'd hate to see this effort go in vain (but it probably would).  the SC2 community isn't exactly hyped about a game like this mainly because there hasn't been a single sandbox game on sc2 yet.


also, if you do have SC2 and you are interested, include that in your message to me. i am probably going to try set up an alpha with some very basic units and triggering 3-4 weeks from now (because of my lack of time, sorry in advance).


Last plug before i go, SC2 Arcade (which is where all the custom games are at), in case you are not aware, is now 100% Free to play. i believe all you need to do is download the SC2 Starter Edition Client, and register on Battlenet if you have not already. you should gain access to all of Arcade, so you can play this as well. the region lock is lifted too, so make sure you find your way onto NA. if i do happen to post it, i will post it on NA because i stopped going on SEA.


EDIT: Forgot to mention, everyhing is subject to change. Uncle Sam needs your opinion, people.

--

Steam @ J'InFi

msg me if you need to ask anything. pro lurker here.

http://midnightcrew.minitroopers.com <---- when you're bored

May 1, 2014 at 4:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

FABLE
Member
Posts: 3

You give a lot in that map, I admire you :)
Continue good work 

May 1, 2014 at 8:15 AM Flag Quote & Reply

fRea4ky
Member
Posts: 46

I prefer wc3 ,always was a fan of medival theme.Thou you are doing a marvelous job on sc2.You gave me some ideas :)

I'm still looking for a triggerer(if this is a word):D.

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May 4, 2014 at 6:07 AM Flag Quote & Reply

J' InFiniTY
Moderator
Posts: 767

being honest, i did see some really marvelous medieval themed games on sc2, but there are two fundamental problems that keep popping up for me:


1. excessive use of models will mean a very large map. although it's not a big problem, 4v4 stormwind (the WC3 remake on sc2) is 900mbs. i don't plan on going that far, but it gives you an idea of what kind of toll it takes on the lobbies that would probably play the game.


2. the sc2 modelling community isn't as accessible and big as wc3, so the number of models will a) take time, b) take effort, c) may not exist to begin with. just to clarify, i don't use sc2mapster, which is where most of the shit probably is


on top of that, like i said, making SC2 units is a bitch. a lot of animation n stuff can be very buggy when making custom units. sc2 is just more accessible to me, and has access to a much stronger engine that can support more units before lagging out, enabling us to do plague properly without crashing the game, etc etc. other than that, i would love to stick to a medieval theme. the theme feels unappreciated on sc2 though.

--

Steam @ J'InFi

msg me if you need to ask anything. pro lurker here.

http://midnightcrew.minitroopers.com <---- when you're bored

May 5, 2014 at 5:35 AM Flag Quote & Reply

fRea4ky
Member
Posts: 46

clanRC.enjin.com

These guys are going to revive FOTN,they made an unprotected version and are gathering "members".J' InFiniTY as a moderator i think you should contact them,and point them in the right direction beacuse i had a few chats wth them and they have no idea what things to add.Being the moderator they would surley listen to you.Explain the FOTN lore and the manga it is based on and stuff...guess you should know what to tell them


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May 5, 2014 at 3:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

J' InFiniTY
Moderator
Posts: 767

find a good posts in the suggestion section and point them there. everything you need has been here for 2-3 years now, catching dust. i really can't see the purpose of someone like myself joining such a broad clan such as RC; i don't frequent wc3 anymore, and i cannot monitor your progresses even if i did. i'm simply too busy to cover all bases.


EDIT: However, if you give me a list of things you need to know, i can provide it to you, i probably know it off by heart but i can't give you a full recap right here right now. just too much things to say.

--

Steam @ J'InFi

msg me if you need to ask anything. pro lurker here.

http://midnightcrew.minitroopers.com <---- when you're bored

May 6, 2014 at 4:24 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Kalkara
Member
Posts: 172

Hello people of a gradually dying fourm :P.


So, I've actually made a carbon copy of the wc3 map in unity, (There was a neat plugin on another fourm for unity that let me use the terrain and trigger settings from wc3 maps) Where its at the point that it was left on wc3. I dont have any models or textures yet so its basically a menu game with characters being boxes of various shapes and sizes.


J'inf, give me a heads up if you ever release your map. I'd be keen to play if you still on sc2 and not locked into Techwars :P.

--

If you say Plz because it is shorter than Please, I will say no because it is shorter than yes.


Steam : Kalkarak (caution, im 99% of the time on it and playing games of some nature, Uni holidays ftw)

July 8, 2014 at 6:36 AM Flag Quote & Reply

J' InFiniTY
Moderator
Posts: 767

yeah man, so because SC2 editor is somewhat different to WC3 Editor (by that i mean quite a bit), i have actually made another map with similar nature, in a medieval fashion, focussed around knights & kings style gameplay. it should be ready for alpha this sunday.


the FOTN remake itself hasn't really gotten off the ground atm, mainly because i am having some conflicting ideas in certain areas, but i'm sure with the Kings & Knights map i will be able to finally make my mind.


the Kings & Knights style map will essentially be my self-evaluation map; i don't know how it will be received, and i also need input on balancing and gameplay and whatnot.


the map will feature 1 faction on alpha release (dubbed the gothic/church faction). it will also have 3 playable heroes up to level 20 (Warrior, Archer, Mage). players will be encouraged to try both RTS elements (Kings) and RPG/Mercenary Elements (Knights). be warned, come this sunday, i am 99% sure the RPG elements will be very miniscule, and many features won't be working.


there are two other factions currently underway: the Kingdom/Realm Faction, and the Cult Faction. each faction will have it's own specialties, recruitment methods, army composition (in terms of style), etc. for example, Kingdom trains all units from Villagers (similar to larva), where as Cult trains units through sacrificing other units (to gain gas, a substitute resource cause i can't be screwed to change it yet).


most things in this map i am looking into moving into the FOTN remake as well, such as the idea that units must be trained in a certain manner, or in groups, etc. i'll post more details when i publish the map to Bnet on NA on sunday.



P.S Steam = J'InFi - someone tracked me down without me telling em :/ (not saying who)


also, Tech wars is meh, teams can be sooo stupid. either you get overstacked or they get overstacked. ez wins 90% of the time though. my rotation for SC2 custom games are currently: Tech Wars, UA3, EraZ, and WAH.

--

Steam @ J'InFi

msg me if you need to ask anything. pro lurker here.

http://midnightcrew.minitroopers.com <---- when you're bored

July 10, 2014 at 2:28 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Kalkara
Member
Posts: 172

EU servers are alot better for custom games, so I chill there and techwars over there is less stacked amazingly. I basically get stuck into whatever is fun.


So basically what your saying is Kings and Knights has a simillar playstyle to heroes and empires? (wc3) because ive been keen to get stuck into some decent long sc2 games. Kinda feels like the map making community died out.

--

If you say Plz because it is shorter than Please, I will say no because it is shorter than yes.


Steam : Kalkarak (caution, im 99% of the time on it and playing games of some nature, Uni holidays ftw)

July 14, 2014 at 9:52 PM Flag Quote & Reply

J' InFiniTY
Moderator
Posts: 767

yeah, i guess. i'll post a proper post on the other topic today, just for you. lol.

--

Steam @ J'InFi

msg me if you need to ask anything. pro lurker here.

http://midnightcrew.minitroopers.com <---- when you're bored

July 15, 2014 at 7:57 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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